Forge World

So with the revamp of the Forge World line and the moving of many lines to the Legacy section of the 40k universe, I've had a couple of thoughts. 

Now, I know that a lot of stuff has probably been moved as either it just didn't sell very well or because the moulds have worn out or are wearing out. I guess that all the renegade stuff will fall in to this category but some like the marine characters will no doubt be removed to make way for primaris versions or new characters. Anyway, it's the Guard section that I am most interested by.

On the list of guard units that have been moved to the Legacy list are a number of static guns, like the earthshaker battery. These are basically just static versions of standard GW products and so it's not surprising they have disappeared. There are also various Chimera based units. Only one is a true Chimera vehicle, the Storm and this is really only a specialised turret option. The others are highly specialised, such as the scout cars but all of them are a variation on a theme. The fact that the base upgrade has disappeared is not a surprise and given that the various others are linked to either the death corps or the Elysian's it is again not surprising they have disappeared, even if the toolings are still good. 

It is not the disappearance of these units that I wish to talk about however but the possibilities that their disappearance brings about. With the release of 9th and the updates that many armies are likely to get plus the various "special" models that the guards have received lately brings me some hope that we might be getting a long awaited overhaul to the troops options. Now I know that many of the vehicles are relatively new and don't really need much updating (Leman Russ Annihilator anyone?) but the infantry line does need some work. The complete lack of female sculpts is one thing but there is a more basic issue, the complete lack of special weapons on many of the sprues. Having to buy the command sets to get access to many of the special weapons for your squads is a bit of an issue that seriously needs rectifying and a new edition is a good time to do it. The easiest way would be via upgrade sets, similar to the marine sets but with some torsos, heads and arms. Together with a redone cadian and catachan sets, this could lead to a whole variety of different regiments being available. Granted they won't be as detailed as the current FW ones but they will still be better than nothing!

Catachan Jungle Fighters

I'm hoping the removal of so many units from the FW list mean that there is a big update coming to the guard. As mentioned above, I hope that there will be an update to the basic guard boxes and I hope that there will be some sort of upgrade packs to give the various regiments some distinct identity. However my biggest hope surrounds the light vehicles, the Salamanders, Tauros and Centaur. Now I know what a lot of you will be thinking, more guard vehicles! And yes, you would be right, however, you'd also be wrong. The guard have lots of vehicles, I don't deny that but it's the type of vehicles that they don't have that's most marked in my opinion. We have some very good tanks and some good transports, we also have some excellent artillery prices but what we lack are proper fast vehicles. The fast attack section is very thin on the ground and with various units moving to legends it will be even thinner. Yes the troop slot is very thin too but that's a moan for another time. 

As it stands, there are 3 fast attack options in the main codex and only one from FW and these are either sentinels or hellhounds. Now, we're getting into pure wish listing territory here but what I would like to see is two vehicle kits to replace the old FW models with mainline codex kits. I have mentioned one of these in the past, a Tauros type of kit, mostly to go with the Militarum Tempestus forces along side their Taurox's. This kit would basically be a copy of the old kit just in plastic and build both options. It will probably require a rework of the design but should be pretty easy to achieve. 

Tauros Assault vehicle

The second kit I would like to see would also be a multi build kit and replace the salamander and Centaur vehicles as armed light transports. Now, i know that this might seem funny, as if there transports then they should be in the transport section right? Well no, as they would be light, fast gun platforms that could take small squads, say 5 or 6 models. I could see them being armed with multi-meltas, plasma cannons or even grav cannons, weapons that the standard heavy weapons teams don't or can't carry. Imagine a special weapons squad with flamers riding in one of these with a multi-melta, charging up to an enemy transport and vaporising it with the melta before flaming the inhabitants and then most likely being annihilated themselves. 

Centaur light carrier

The issue with these ideas I guess is that sentinels have a very similar role to the Tauros and chimeras can for fill the role of the second vehicle in most cases. I just feel that these are really the only two areas that the guard are lacking in and the only options that did exist were forge world models and now even there gone. 

Oh, and while we're on the topic of fast attack options, where are my Rough Riders!

Some musings on blast weapons

 

So this is more of a filler post than anything else. I've a couple of posts needing finishing off but we're going through a bit of a lull at the moment. The new SM codex is out and looks good but I'm not going to write anything on that yet, as I don't have a copy and lots of people out there have written or are writing some very good reviews using the actual book (St Andrews wargaming). I will get the books eventually, just not yet, I'm waiting for all the supplements to.come.out first and figure what I actually want for my new marine lists. Talking of Marines, a second eBay purchase has come through, the marine half of Shadowspear. This means that I now own all the Dark Imperium and Shadowspear Space Marines and am well.on the way to for filling all my 500 point marine armies. The Dark Imperium Marines are built but Shadowspear Marines are still on sprues. When I got them all built and primed I'll post them up here but that could be a while! 

I have also, almost finished the last few Hjaltland LI models, to complete the army but I need to finish them before I can post up pictures. Only a few models to finish, so hopefully that won't take to long. I also have some lore to post up, as I have my sister's of battle kill team built and primed and ready for painting. These are on the list, fairly near the top, so I need to get the lore written up and posted. I should also probably write something for my Deathwatch and Grey Knights as well but I've nothing prepared for them. Hopefully the sisters lore will be up over the next couple of weeks. 

Apart from that little lot, there really isn't much going on in my hobby love right now. Lack of time and, in some respects, motivation means that the blog is going through a bit of a dry spell right now. Hopefully we'll get a new guard codex soon after Christmas and I'll be back in the groove again. 

Anyway, the main point of this blog was supposed to be about blast weapons. I was watching a battle report on DZTV earlier and a discussion about blast weapons came up, which got me thinking. As it's stands units less than 5 it's just the straight Dx (D3 or D6 usually) roll but if the unit is 6 to 10, it's a minimum of 3 shots and if the units 11+ then it's the maximum number of shots. Now for most units this is great but there are some exceptions. I mention this when I looked at the wyverns during GW's faction focus posts but now I've had time to think about this and I've come up with an issue for my at selection.

Now as I said in that post, wyverns fire 4d6 shots, meaning a straight up 4d6 for a unit 5 and under but also for units 6 to 10, as it's a min 3 shots per weapon, not per dice and as the stormshard mortar is a single weapon, it's a minimum 3 shots, (on 4d6!) Only when the enemy is over 11 models does the blast rule really kick in, resulting in a straight 24 shots. 

Now the issue arises when you look at mortar teams. A basic wyverns cost 135 points and for 136 point you can get 8 mortar teams. Ok, you need 9 for 3 heavy weapons squads but you could also have some in infantry squads, which will still do the same job. Anyway, 8 teams is 16 wounds compared to 11 for the wyverns. Yes the wyverns is T6 I stead of T3 and has a 3+ save rather than a 5+. Then again, it can't benifit from cover and the +1 to save, it's profile degrades, hitting on 6's by the end. All in all there is not a great deal to separate these units and there's not, in my opinion, a clear winner. 

When you look at the amount of shots there is a real disparity between the two. A wyvern, as I said is looking at 4d6 up to 10 models and 24 for an 11 plus unit, while 8 mortar teams are looking at 8d6 up to 5 models, 8d6 with a minimum of 24 shots on units 6 to 10 and a massive 48 shots on a unit 11+. This may sound good but it's not as clear cut, as the wyvern fires all at once, where as the mortars all shoot individually. There for not all the mortar squads will be shooting at a unit that is 11+ models, some will be shooting at a unit that is 6 to 10 models strong, meaning that there won't be a full 48 shots but somewhere between 24 and 48 shots. Then there is the fact that the wyverns rerolls to wound, which will also make a difference to the amount of models that are killed, as in theory, more wounds will result from fewer hits.

So with all this in mind, I've tried a little bit of mathhammer to see what the difference actually would be. First up the wyvern, as it's the easiest to calculate. (A note to mention, <5 models is taken as the average number of shots, 6-10 is based on the minimum number of shots and 11+ maximum number of shots, all number are rounded down to nearest whole number as well)

Wyverns; 

Against T3 Sv5+ models (eg Guard)

<5 - 4 dead

6-10 - 4 dead

11+ - 7 dead

Against T4 Sv5+ models (eg Orks)

<5 - 3 dead

6-10 - 3 dead

11+ - 6 dead

Against T4 Sv3+ models (eg Marines)

<5 - 1 dead

6-10 - 1 dead 

11+ - 3 dead

Now, this isn't spectacular but is decent. In terms of the T3 and T4 5+ save models there will be morale issues at the end of the turn. T4 Sv3+ models are always going to be hard to remove and also unlikely to be in units of 11+.

But how does this compare to a mortar team or 8? Well a lone mortar team looks something like this;

Against T3 Sv5+ models

<5 - 0 dead

6-10 - 0 dead

11+ - 1 dead

Against T4 Sv5+ models 

<5 - 0 dead

6-10 - 0 dead

11+ - 1 dead

Against T4 Sv3+ models 

<5 - 0 dead

6-10 - 0 dead 

11+ - 0 dead

Yeah, not great is it? To be fair it's one mortar, but how does this stack when 8 are used?

Against T3 Sv5+ models 

<5 - 6 dead

6-10 - 5 dead

11+ - 10 dead

Against T4 Sv5+ models

<5 - 4 dead

6-10 - 4 dead

11+ - 8 dead

Against T4 Sv3+ models 

<5 - 2 dead

6-10 - 2 dead 

11+ - 4 dead

As you can see it's better than the Wyverns scores, even with the minor discrepancy with the T3 models! So what does this tell us? Well, taking 8 mortar teams is better than taking one wyvern in terms of killing power, possibly. As I said, it's not quite as clear cut as this. For example on the first two options, T3 Sv5+ and T4 Sv5+ the numbers killed would most likely drop the unit down a bracket and reduce the number of shots, resulting in less wounds and therefore less kills, meaning that the difference would be less and there maybe no difference at all. This is especially so when you consider that most units will not be 20 or 10 strong in anything but the first round of shooting. Out of interest I also did 6 teams or two complete squads, to see what the results would be;

Against T3 Sv5+ models 

<5 - 4 dead

6-10 - 4 dead

11+ - 8 dead

Against T4 Sv5+ models 

<5 - 3 dead

6-10 - 3 dead

11+ - 6 dead

Against T4 Sv3+ models 

<5 - 1 dead

6-10 - 1 dead 

11+ - 3 dead 

Now this was a surprise! These are almost exactly the same as the wyverns tally! This definitely gives me pause for though, as two squads of mortars are just over 100 points, a saving of over 30 points. Again some caveats apply but I may have to reevaluate my ideas a bit. There is no doubt the wyvern is a great vehicle but it definitely needs a little extra something, such as -1ap or an extra point of strength to really push it past the mortar teams. I will probably keep on using the wyverns as I like them but I think that they are getting out classes by plain old mortar squads. Also, I do realise that wyverns also have heavy bolters as standard but they mortar teams also have lasguns, so maybe once these are included things may change a little but most of the time both units are going to be hidden away and not able to use them. 

Wow, that turned in to something I wasn't expecting from a short filler post! Got kinds carried away there. I hope this was of interest to someone and maybe was a bit of an eye opener to the new blast rules.